4.22

[layne67]

First thing first. Let's see if I got this right, both the angels and the demons wanted the apocalypse to happen, they wanted humanity gone, but while the demons wanted Lucifer to rule ( through Sam? ), the angels wanted Lucifer dead, and have Michael (?) as their leader ( through Dean? ). Did I get that right?

While I wasn't slayed off or anything, I'm quite satisfied with the finale. What I was so afraid would happen didn't happen, that one thing that would have put me off season 5. So yeah, I'm VERY MUCH looking forward to next season.

And what I wanted to happen did happen, only you know, I was hoping it'd be in a more dramatic way. It was kind of an anti-climax, to see Ruby killed just like that.

Lilith was great, the effect was quite dramatic for me.

But that green room with Zachariah delivering those awful lines? I cringed to see the burgers and the beer. And I wish Bobby was in it longer ( but he didn't die yay! ). I didn't really mind what he said to Dean, but it wasn't really needed, and it just added to the bad lines in the episode. But I guess you could blame it on Chuck.

Sam and Dean back together again, that, that was what I wanted to see, and even if the ending was kind of frustrating ( I wanted to see Lucifer so very badly ), for me, this image more than made up for the heartache Sam and Dean had given me throughout season 4.



So, I guess the questions for season 5 would be :

1. Will Lucifer possess Sam? Or *gasps* Dean?
2. Will Castiel be joining Sam and Dean now that he has officially separated himself from heaven, or whatever is left of it? As much as I love Castiel, I'd rather not have him with Sam and Dean 24/7 though.
3. Will the apocalypse really happen? Or has it happened already?

I can't wait for season 5! But in the meantime, I'm going to see the other Angels and Demons this evening. Looking forward to see Tom Hanks again, hopefully with a better haircut this time around.

Edit : One question. Was Azazel back from the dead?

Edit 2 : And oh, I squeed so loud when Castiel cut himself, I really thought he was going to let Dean drink his blood!! Pity that didn't happen.

Edit 3 : I take back what I said about not minding what Bobby said to Dean, I DO mind, very much. But I'm going to take that as bad writing, and I'm not going to think too much into that. Or maybe take that as Bobby trying to get Dean into his groove back. Or something like that.

Comments

[shadowc44.livejournal.com]

My theories:

1. Yes. Or yes. I can see him asking them to make a choice.

Dean: No, take ME! I'm much better-looking!
Sam: Don't listen to him! I'm the one who deserves to be punished.
Lucifer: Such pretty choices...


2. Yes! I think Cas will be showing up now and then, whenever he feels like it, as he did before. But now they're all being hunted by the angels! And hunters! And demons! And everyone on Earth but Bobby!

3. The apocalpyse...might be staved off. IF Sam or Dean choose willingly to be the host for Lucifer...and remember Cas's deal with Jimmy? Forever and ever and ever? Then his brother and humanity will be saved, can go on their merry way none the wiser. Lucifer will do whatever else he wants to do, but on a smaller playing field.

Question 4: Is Sam still the Anti-Christ? What if he is, and Dean is possessed by Lucifer? Or will Dean be possessed by the Archangel Michael? Oops, guess that's 4, 5, and 6! I'm sure I have more, but it's dinner time and I gotta go. Back soon!

[layne67.livejournal.com]

1. But even if Lucifer were to possess either one of the boys, at least Sam and Dean are, for the moment at least, aware that they are brothers, that they should be together. What happened after and IF Lucifer possessed either of them ( I'm thinking Sam ) is really out of their control, so we'll be spared the pain of them fighting against each other as Sam and Dean, if you know what I mean.

3. Oh but I don't think Lucifer possessing a willing vessel would stop the apocalypse, because I really can't see him playing on a smaller field. He'd want it ALL, I think.

4. If Sam is the AC and Dean is possessed by Lucifer, then the two brothers will both go rogue next season. And Castiel and Bobby will team up to de-possess them, or whatever, to get back Sam and Dean.

How's dinner? :)

[ninjamidget66.livejournal.com]

1. Awww, Lanie! Thru the ep. I assumed that Sam was being made stronger to be ready to be the vessel for Lucifer. It never occurred to me that with both of them there at the end; he might actually choose between Sam & Dean. Thanks a lot for putting THAT in my head! Tho personally I still think it's Sam.

2. Now that we know Misha will be a regular next season, I'm assuming he will be around more; but like you I don't think I want him there all the time riding in the back seat of the Impala. I told Mom I think S5 will be about the hunters becoming the hunted and Cas will be popping in to help them out of trouble (hopefully he will learn how to fight better by then lol)

3. Your guess is as good as mine.

Edit 1: The parts with Azazel were flashbacks to 1972, this confused me at first too; but I just happened to catch the tiny little footnote on the second scene at the St. Mary's convent. So, no he's still dead.

Edit 2: OMG, I thought this too! And then I said to Mom, "All the Dean/Castiel shippers are squeeing and falling over dead right now." LOL!

[goodbyetoyou.livejournal.com]

i don't think ALL the angels wanted the apocalypse. Like the ones out saving the seals and trying to prevent it, I don't think they had ANY idea the higher ups were just fuckin' with them.

[shadowc44.livejournal.com]

Dinner was pretty blah. I got a couple of salads at McDonald's for Mom and I. We're running out of ideas on low-salt meals, and neither of us enjoys cooking.

1. I get what you mean. If for instance, Sam is possessed by Lucifer, then whatever Lucifer does, Dean can at least know it's not Sam being evil, or choosing to be evil. I just wish they'd had a little bit more time to go back to being brothers, from being enemies. The other day, a friend who doesn't watch the show, but seems to enjoy hearing me blather about it, when I told him about When the Levee Breaks, he said, "Oh no! They broke up!" Now I can tell him they figuratively (unfortunately) kissed and made up. At least next time they get into a huge fight, it won't as likely be as Sam and Dean.

3. If they couldn't afford to show Hell, I doubt they can afford to show the Apocalypse. Even a post-Apocalyptic landscape might put them over budget, unless they can reuse it for every episode. That would be sort of cool, put them in one stable location. Maybe Bobby's place, or a nice hotel for a change, as Lucifer!Sam's headquarters. 'Cause let's face it, he might be the ruler there, but I doubt Lucifer really wants to go to Hell if he has the chance of playing around on Earth.

4. Rogue!Boys FTW! With Bobby driving and Castiel riding shotgun, trying to track them down! Can't you just see THOSE two on the road together, sharing cheap run-down motel rooms? Side thoughts: I sure hope the boys are smart enough to CLOSE THEIR EYES before Lucifer fully appears. If they can't take looking at Castiel's true form, how much worse would it be to see Lucy? And what about their tattoos? Would Lucifer just laugh at those, or find a way to tear Sam's skin enough that the pattern would be broken? But without a body, can he do that? So many questions! I want fic now, dammit! I certainly don't want to write it, but I want to read it!

Re: Edit 1 - that was years ago, pre-Mary's deal.

Re: Edit 2 - Yes, I wanted Dean to drink Castiel's blood, as symmetry to Sam drinking demon blood. Hm, if Sam drank angel blood (from a willing angel, obviously) would that negate any lingering effects from the demon blood? Or is that completely gone from his system now?

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I still think it'd be Lucifer for Sam, since I presumed he had been prepared just for that. And then either an angel would get into Dean, and it would be Sam v Dean after all ( but somehow I don't think I'd mind it so much since it wouldn't really be them ), or both of them would escape, and like you said, the hunters will become the hunted.

And thank you for clearing that part with Azazel. I didn't get that at all and there I was thinking if they could bring back Azazel from the dead, then everyone else is fair game - John, Mary, Bela, Ruby!

And I really, really wanted to see Dean having a go at Castiel. Not that I ship Dean/Castiel but I'd just LOVE to see that!

[ninjamidget66.livejournal.com]

And I really, really wanted to see Dean having a go at Castiel.

Yeah, I'm not into D/C either, but I know what you mean. Something to do with those lips maybe? *groan* Oh, I'm such a bad girl.

Going to bed before I get into deeper trouble. G'night.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think there're still good angels around but probably they're in the minority now. Castiel of course, and Anna. Uggh, I really dislike Zachariah. He really is oily, isn't he, and not just in a figure-of-speech way. He looked like he'd slither off anytime!

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Dean sucking blood from Castiel would be a sight to behold!! I could feel myself deflating, like a balloon, literally, when Castiel slapped his bloodied hand on the wall instead.

Good night, dear Ninj, and sweet dreams!

[layne67.livejournal.com]

With Bobby driving and Castiel riding shotgun

Now that I'd really want to see! They never had a scene together, had they, except for that one short moment in Lazarus Rising when Castiel put Bobby to sleep.

Heh, now I'm thinking of Lucifer without a body as Voldermort, with Sam and Dean as Harry and Ron LOL.

I've only just realized that the church scene was a flashback.

if Sam drank angel blood

And that angel would be ... DEAN!!!!!!!!!!

[shadowc44.livejournal.com]

YES, TO ALL OF THOSE! Nope, i don't think Castiel and Bobby have ever really talked or consciously interacted except for those few seconds before Cas knocked Bobby out.

I can't wait to see what scenarios Kripke comes up with next season. I'm fairly certain I won't be bored!

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Season 5 would be very much anticipated for sure!!

[leelust.livejournal.com]

Good you changed your mind about Bobby's words, i was ready to start ranting :)))
I don't want Luci to possess anyone. I'm tired of it. It's enough that i'm afraid they still aren't finished with Sam's powers and might turture me with them another for season 'meh'

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Actually I'm just fed-up with people telling Dean those things that I just didn't want to think of it anymore. It's just so plain stupid and uncalled for, and like I said I'm going to put that to extremely bad writing and leave it at that. Or Bobby ( and Zachariah ) trying to provoke Dean out of his apparent apathy.

Sam probably wouldn't have any power left unless he drinks more demon blood, which I don't think he'll do again.

But other than that glitch with Bobby ( and Zachariah ), I thought the finale ended on a very hopeful note!

[i-o-r-h-a-e-l.livejournal.com]

Someone to play Lucifer should be a very handsome man. :D

Btw, I love it that Bobby calls Dean princess. hehehe

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Lucifer in his true form is supposed to be very beautiful, but the human that he's possessing could be anybody! But yeah, they should probably choose someone beautiful to play Lucifer ( if it came to that ). Siapa ya? Because I can't think of anyone more beautiful than our Dean!

Oh Bobby ... never would I've thought that I'd be upset with him :(

[i-o-r-h-a-e-l.livejournal.com]

the human that he's possessing

My sis and I thought that it should not be him possessing but it's his true form and it's still going to have to be very beautiful. But yeah, nobody is more beautiful than Dean/Jensen imho. :D

[layne67.livejournal.com]

But can he be seen in his true form?

It could still be Lucifer!Sam vs Michael!Dean in season 5 premier, but I probably won't mind that much, because to me, the boys have made their peace with each other, so it won't really be Sam against Dean per se.

I'm so excited about season 5!

[i-o-r-h-a-e-l.livejournal.com]

I actually don't think Sam will be a vessel for Lucifer at all. That thing what Ruby said about Lucifer being so grateful for Sam makes me think. In what way? Yeah, perhaps by possessing him. But what about another way?

And my own vision about the beginning of S5: Lucifer is there and about to attack the boys. He can't get to Dean of course because Dean is Michael and the wings suddenly flap open and he engulf Sam to protect him.

:)

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Now that's a beautiful image you've given me there!

I honestly have no idea how season 5 premier is going to open. Maybe with Sam and Dean running for their lives, with the world in ruins around them? But unless CW has increased their budget, I don't think they'd be able to showcase an apocalypse scene convincingly.

Btw, how is LJ with you tonight? It's very slow for me and I have difficulty in opening pages :(

[majblomma.livejournal.com]

I always love to read yours and Shinta's reviews. Every time I've watched an ep. I wonder what you thought. *g*

I agree with you on all those points but one. I'm probably the only one who wasn't very upset with Bobby yelling at Dean. I feel like Bobby feels like he's so emotionally involved he's too scared to see them like this and you know that you get this angry when you're worried. ;)

Well, I am certainly looking forward to the next season and I'm so relieved that Sam and Dean are back on track again and don't have to worry TOO much. Hehe.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

I probably wouldn't have minded it if Bobby were the first person to say that to Dean, and I agree with your reasonings as to why Bobby said what he said. And I'm also thinking that Bobby was trying to provoke Dean into helping Sam. But the same thing had been said before not once but twice, the first time by Sam in the siren episode and the second time by Zachariah in 'It's a Terrible Life'. And I was like, not again! My poor Dean ... he can come to me anytime for comfort :DD

I can't wait for S5. I think I'm looking forward to this new season more than I did to the previous seasons!

[majblomma.livejournal.com]

I agree with you. It's a bit too much nagging on Dean but still in Bobby's defense - he couldn't know. LOL

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Castiel and Dean should have gotten to Chuck earlier and stopped him from writing those lines for Bobby LOL.

[majblomma.livejournal.com]

LOL Yeah, it's the writer, not Bobby. ;)

[i-o-r-h-a-e-l.livejournal.com]

Sorry didn't reply last night. I shut down the comp already. :)

But it was okay before I turned in. I didn't think it was slow.

[ala-tariel.livejournal.com]

My views for season 5:
1. None of the boys will be possessed by Lucifer. Kripke et al have to cast someone as The Demon. Beside, Sam will be under protection of Dean, while Dean is Michael, Lucifer's enemy number 1. :D There's no way Michael is possessed by Lucifer.

2. Since Michael has the healing power, Sam will endure a grueling yet complete process of detoxification under Dean's guidance.

Okay, I can only think of 2 things right now. Perhaps more later. :D

[layne67.livejournal.com]

If Michael was in Dean, will that mean we won't really have Dean, the real Dean, anymore?

[ala-tariel.livejournal.com]

He will have a split personality I guess. He's still Dean, but with Michael's power and ability. Is it possible?

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Anything's possible with Kripke.

But I really hope that we'll still have our old Dean. Remember the rumours before S3, someone speculated that Ruby would possess Dean's body? I hated that!!

I'm thinking that the boys would be on the run in season 5, the hunters becoming the hunted sort of thing, along with Castiel!

[ala-tariel.livejournal.com]

Hunted by Lucifer? But, shouldn't Dean hunt Lucifer instead? Of course, with Castiel's help.

Sam is another case altogether. Because he opened the door, Lucifer hunts him to repay, just like Ruby said.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

They probably need to re-group before they can hunt Lucifer. Lucifer is not just another bad guy, and while Michael isn't there yet, I think they'll have to go into hiding or something.

But I don't know anything of course!!! Yes, I really wonder very much how S5 is going to be like. I'm so looking forward to it!.

[ala-tariel.livejournal.com]

I think Dean will need some kind of process to be Michael. And it's not that easy. Equals Sam's process of detox.

Oh, I wish next week is already Season 5.

[tj-smartz.livejournal.com]

DEAN!! Lucy's totally gonna take Dean. And Sam will again be forced to use his doggy demon powers but this time against his brother. *cries* God I hope not.

I loved it. And I loved Bobby! I thought he was giving Dean the kick up the butt he needed. What was it that upset you the most about what he said?

[layne67.livejournal.com]

That boo-hoo, stop whining thing. It's so ... repetetive, first Sam then Zachariah now Bobby? I could ( somehow ) forgive Sam ( he was under the siren's influence then ), and Zachariah ( well, we know what he is now ) but Bobby? Such a contrast to what he said to Dean in AHBL2, when he found out about the deal.

But like I said, I'm just going to take that as Bobby trying to provoke Dean out of his "apathy", to goad him into action, because to have Bobby thinking of Dean as a whiner, no, I can't take that :/

Lucy's totally gonna take Dean. And Sam will again be forced to use his doggy demon powers but this time against his brother.

That, or Michael!Dean vs Lucifer!Sam. But I don't think I'd mind that, not any more, because this time around, even if it came to that it wouldn't really be them per se but Michael v Lucifer, or, like you said, Lucifer!Dean v demon!Sam.

[tj-smartz.livejournal.com]

I was ok with Bobby giving it to Dean because BOBBY LOVES DEAN. That is indisputable. Everyone else - they have me to reckon with when they have a go at Dean. But Bobby is family and sometimes you need family to help kick you up the butt when you need it. And Dean really did need it.

*loves Bobby forever*

I really needed the finale to be like it was. I'm ready for anything else now. I can handle it all going bad again right from the beginning of next season because the boys CHOSE each other. And anything that comes between them now will be supernatural and out of their control.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

. I can handle it all going bad again right from the beginning of next season because the boys CHOSE each other.

EXACTLY!!!

Oh Toni, I'm so looking forward to season 5. I hated the thought of season 3 ( the new girls ), S4 gave me the jitters ( how it was going to be between the boys ) but season 5? I'm ALL excited about it and I can't wait to see where Kripke's going to go with it.

[tj-smartz.livejournal.com]

Me too Lin. Its the first time for me as well. For all the same reasons. I can't believe I'm even ok with the idea of the boys battling each other. Dare I say it, even slightly excited???

[xwacky.livejournal.com]

Someone maybe already said these, but:

I don't think Zachariah is looking to Dean as their leader. Dean is more like a "not so secret weapon" to him since Dean is prophesied to "end" Lucifer. The imagery reference to archangel Michael is of course the legend where Michael is the one to banish Satan, therefore drawing a connection between Dean and Michael. I don't think Dean is Michael literally, at least not while he's alive. ;)

I love Zachariah as the bad guy. He reminds me of Dick Chaney *g* (shameless self-pimp: see my review here). This episode is as politically relevant as SPN gets for me. I guess it's the BSG geek in me that appreciate the complexity of the angels we are introduced this season. The demons never got this good.

Azazel is as DED as Ruby, killed for good. That was just a flash back, to tie him in with Lilith-Ruby. They were working together to achieve the same goal which is free Lucifer. Kripke gave the answer to what YED's plan was.

Bobby's lecture was a little hard for me. I don't agree with him completely, but I see him desperate, said things he wouldn't otherwisely say. He was right on one front: Dean is a better man than John. Dean would go after Sam for sure, just may take some time; and Bobby just gave him a little nudge so he'll do it quickly.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Yes, I agree with you. Knowing that Zachariah is a rogue angel, it's unlikely that he'd want Michael as his leader, whether or not he's in Dean. Unless Michael has gone bad too of course. And by bad, I mean --, well, I don't know what I really mean actually. Angels who are no longer following God's orders? Not demons, not exactly fallen angels, but definitely not the angels of old, like Castiel or Anna.

And hee, I have make my peace with Bobby heheh.

[xwacky.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure it's the case angels no longer following God's orders. In my mind, I'm seeing a kind of anarchy where God is extremely absent. Maybe it's God's way of encouraging free-will, intentionally or unintentionally?

[casey28.livejournal.com]

Bobby wanted Dean to not give up on Sam, and so he said a few harsh things to snap Dean out of it, but it's the stuff he said at the end that really mattered; that showed how much he thinks of Dean (you're a better man then your father ever was).

I read in a few different places that Castiel won't be around all the time... that he'll be there to help Sam and Dean, but not 24/7. I hope that's true!

The cliffhanger was evil, but the boys clutching each other is one of my favorite moments of the season. :)

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Yes, I got it that Bobby meant well but why must he said it in almost the exact same way that Zachariah did in It's A Terrible Life and Sam in the siren episode. And by "he" I actually meant Kripke. He needn't have made it sound like Dean was such a whiner, not once, not twice but three times now :(

I'm glad to hear that Castiel won't be around all the time. As much as I adore him, having him in the backseat all the time would be all kinds of awkward!

And yes, that final image of them together ... that was just plain AWESOME!!