Sam/Dean : The Wincest factor

[layne67]

setissma wrote this thought-provoking write-up on why she thinks the Sam/Dean incestuous relationship ( fanon if not canon, though really, there's a very fine line there ) is pretty much inevitable. And this coming from someone who do NOT think that incest in fanfics ( I'm not talking about RL here ) is okay. Until she discovered Sam/Dean, that is.

Do give it a read, even if you're not into Wincest. The discussions in the comments are pretty interesting, too.

http://setissma.livejournal.com/567370.html?view=4711242#t4711242

"When you have a good relationship with your siblings, sex doesn't come into play because sex wouldn't add anything to the relationship. It's on a different level." It was also that, for personal reasons, incest hit major "no" buttons for me. (I still won't read parent/child incest. Just... no.)

ETA: And slightly out of topic, quoting peripheralsight :

A wise friend of mine once said that the new trend of trying to defuse the homoerotic tension of the buddy genre by making the buddies brothers only leads the fangirls on to greater sins.

From here.

Comments

[claudia603.livejournal.com]

It's interesting...I still can't get into incest in any form. I love the relationship between Sam and Dean and I find myself wishing that they were just. friends. because then the slash could be there for me! :D

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Oh, Claudia, there's always the Jared/Jensen love to explore!!!

:D

[roqui.livejournal.com]

as much as i agree with everything she wrote there, she simply covered the emotional component of their relationship and connection. but it isn't the emotional part that's bothering a lot of people - it's the carnal part that it's a tad too odd for our tastes.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Aah, and that means you havent read the fics, the ones that are so well-written and so well-crafted that they just pulled you in, hook, line and sinker. That's how I first got thoroughly immersed in this fandom, through the fics first then only the TV show :)

[starlit-woods.livejournal.com]

I feel the need to vomit a little bit, even at the idea of fictional incest.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

I'm not trying to defend incest or anything here, and as I said we're talking about the lives of these two completely made-up characters. Okay, lets see if I can make you understand this, no, not about incest but about how, to me at least, there's a very specific line between what is real and what is imaginary. I read all sorts of stuff in fanfics and books - bondage, S&M, non-con and yes, incest - though mind you, I do read about other stuff too, the "enlightening" stuff if you may - does that mean I practice BDSM in RL? Do I see two brothers and immediately think that they're making out or something? Non-cons are abhorrent, in any way. But still I read those fics, and if they're well-written, I enjoyed them as well. My mind goes to where my totally boring physical self would never ever think of going, nor would I condone some of them.

That's probably neither here nor there but my point is Sam and Dean and their ... demon-hunting life ( for God's sake what could be more fictional than that? ) are simply that - fiction. I doubt if it's RL, the Winchester boys would escape the notice of the Social Services *shrugs*

And back to what setissma's wrote, I think her one salient point is that it's inevitable, she didn't say it's acceptable and that's a whole lot of difference there.

But I do understand your feelings. Because that's how I feel with some of the pairings in some of the other fandoms.

Btw, do you watch SPN and understand their backstories?

And Jack, please don't think I'm angry or anything, because everyone has their right to their own opinions, and what makes their imaginations soar. Mine is good writing, and believe me that some of the writers in this fandom are simply amazing. They make you believe, and that to me, is the mark of good writers.

[starlit-woods.livejournal.com]

I hope you know I don't think any less of you or anyone who actually likes to read incest fic, I certainly don't, each to their own I say :) And as you said it definitely is fic, not incest in RL which is truly abhorrent. Slipperieslope once said something that I thought was very smart, she said that she reads murder mysteries and that doesn't make her a murderer, so I absolutely believe that people who read incest/noncon/etc aren't bad people or anything, they just like the stories.

But having said that it's just not something that I could read myself. I can't get passed the fact that they're related and I guess for me it's hard to read a story about something like that and not think "this is wrong". Just as I don't read non con stories, and I don't even like the fact that they're called "non con", in my opinion they should be called what they are - rape stories. And unless the character's rape is shown as something bad they went through and not as something 'desirable' then I can't stomach reading that either.

I disagree with what setissma said, I don't think the Winchester's sexual relationship is inevitable, I have watched the show and I can understand them being extremely dependant on each other emotionally and for back up from psycho ghosts or whatever, but I don't think that means it's inevitable that they should have sex with each other or see each other in a sexual way. Sure it's nearly impossible for them to have real relationships with others, but chastity is what I would aim for if I were them ;P If they were just friends and not brothers, fine, but I think it crosses a line, and not just because they're biologically similar, but an emotional line, a personal line, brothers and sisters have roles that they fulfill with each other and I just don't think sex or romance is acceptable in that relationship, and so I'd find it hard to switch that part of my brain off while reading a story about that because somewhere deep down I'd be going "ughhhhhhhhhhhh they're brothers!"

But I absolutely do believe that people who write about this kind of subject can be very talented authors and the stories can be very good, it's just that for me I wouldn't be able to look past the incestuousness of the relationship, I think it's too big a thing to overlook.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

So, we're good, right? We're still friends, yeah?

[starlit-woods.livejournal.com]

Of course we're friends! No difference in tastes is going to come between us! *big hugs*

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Thank goodness. I don't want to lose you 'coz you're among the nicest people here on LJ.

*hugs you back*

[starlit-woods.livejournal.com]

aw thank you! I was very worried that I'd upset you!

[layne67.livejournal.com]

You did, a little *g*

But as I was telling someone, frienship to me is more important than fandom.

<3

[starlit-woods.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry! I never meant to!

I agree, friendship's much more important than fandom. And we all like different things and there's nothing wrong with that :)