SPN S408

[layne67]

Did Sam make a wish? He was seen holding that coin in the second last scene. And I was under the impression that Dean really did not remember his time in hell. He has those nightmares and flashes of memories but I thought that's just about it. But now he's saying that he remembers it all but he's not going to tell Sam anything.

Sounds a lot like a wish gone wrong, IMO. Sam wished for Dean to remember but he didn't specifically said for Dean to tell him about it. So Dean remembers, and suffers. Alone.

What do you think? No spoilers please!

And oh. Another fanfic got Kripke'd :D

Wish by baylorsr.

When the shower scene first appeared, I was thinking "OMG Castiel really is going to make his appearance while Dean's in the shower!"

ETA : And is there anyone else who thought that the Trickster might be involved at first?

Comments

[trueshellz.livejournal.com]

Herm... I think Dean remembered anyway
Coz Uriel said to him to ask Dean baout his time is hell.. eaning that he knew that Dean remembered
x

[layne67.livejournal.com]

So you don't think that Sam made any wish whatsoever with the coin?

[janinelearner.livejournal.com]

I thought the wish only worked when it was in the water? I dont think Sam made a wish, he knows the consequences of doing something like that.

[shadowc44.livejournal.com]

It sounded to me like Dean remembered everything about Hell prior to this episode. A therapist once told me that if we remembered every bad thing that ever happened to us, we wouldn't be able to function. If that's true, and I honestly don't doubt it, it's amazing Dean can manage to do anything at all. He's been handling it really, really well, just lying to Sam about it, probably because he *does not* want to talk about it.

But I kept wondering, too, if Sam really melted down the coin, or if he kept it -- but no, my Sammy wouldn't be that stupid -- OTOH he may well have made a wish before he melted it, though. Even if it's only an unintentional one. Though what I was leaning towards was that if he still had it he might use it to make Dean forget Hell. But then, who knows what else Dean might forget? And maybe the angels want him to remember, because they have limited knowledge about some things.

When you think abut it, the Winchesters have gotten their hands on some awfully dangerous things, like the rabbit's foot, Dr. Not-Quite-Dead's diary that's not destroyed, just buried, and now this coin, that may or may not be destroyed.

However, considering that Sam was the one who realized early on that no good can come of this, and saw the kinds of things that can go wrong, I'd rather believe he *did* melt the coin down, and kept himself from mentally using the term, "I wish." Or, there's the possibility it would only work in conjunction with the wishing well. This show does pose some intriguing questions, doesn't it? :)

[layne67.livejournal.com]

But they could have chosen not to show that part. Because it seemed to me so sudden that Dean remembered, when before all he did was denied that he remembered anything.

But I love this episode. It's quiet and rather subtle yet it gave a very strong impact,if you know what I mean.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

When do you think Dean started remembering? Surely not in Lazarus? He looked so well-adjusted and "normal" for someone who just came out of hell, and remembered about it.

Okay, so maybe it is far-fetched to think that Sam made that wish, but I honestly thought that Dean didn't remember anything about hell, hence the first thing I thought when Dean said he did remember was that Sam made a wish!

[leelust.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's am's wish. Dean started to remember in 406 (even before but he admitted it in 406). But i don't think he remembers it ALL. Just more than he remembered in the beginning.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

In 'Yellow Fever'? You mean when Lilith was scaring him to death at the end there? Yeah, I supposed he *was* forced to remember more things then he would like to, the sickness bringing out his fear of going back to hell.

And now I supposed he's remembering even more. But it would be kind of interesting if Sam did make that wish.

[mews1945.livejournal.com]

All the wishes came untrue when Mondale pulled the coin out, so I don't think that had anything to do with it. The thing that bothers me is that they didn't show Sam melting that coin down. So what did he do with it?

[prism2me.livejournal.com]

I thought Sam would have made the wish for Dean to tell him the truth, but I think that after he knew there were consequences, it wasn't worth it. Besides, all of the wishes had become undone before Dean told Sam that he remembered. Dean remembers everything, but has a hard time supressing it.the memories.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

A-ha! And that was when I think Sam made his wish! Which was why his came true after the rest came undone.

I don't *really* think Sam did it, it's just that Dean emphatically told Sam that he didn't remember anything about his months ( years ) in hell, and you know, right after Sam was seen holding that coin, he suddenly told Sam that he did remember. I just thought it odd! Especially when we have that scene in that motel room when Sam was practically begging Dean to tell him everything.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

made the wish for Dean to tell him the truth

Poorly-worded wish. Sam probably wished that Dean would remember, thinking that Dean would tell him everything once he remembered. Dean did tell him earlier on that he couldn't remember anything, and wishing that Dean would tell him the truth wouldn't do any good if Dean couldn't remember what the truth is in the first place. Hence the emphasis on wishes gone wrong earlier on.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Though I do think that it's in poor form if Sam did wish that Dean would remember his sufferings in hell. That would be ... hell for Dean, all over again. Oh heck, it's giving me a headache trying to get into Sam's head :/

[trueshellz.livejournal.com]

Dont think so... or none of them would have been retracted
He said he meltedit down... if he hadnt then the lottery ticket wouldnt have been fake, big bear owuldnt become little bear
Plus, we know Dean remembers from what we saw inside his head
x

[layne67.livejournal.com]

I'm thinking Sam made that wish after the other wishes got retracted. I mean, he has the coin, the wishes have all came undone, what's stopping him from making a brand new wish? He maybe would have found a way to prevent others from following suit with a new set of wishes.

And I thought Dean was just having flashes of memories - he heard screams, and all those red flashes, but never "true" tortures and stuff.

Oh don't mind me. I'm being like a dog with a bone here *head-desk*

And I've read most of the other reviews and so far I'm the only one having these wierd thoughts so I'm very possibly way off mark.

Ha, wouldn't it be awesome if Kripke made another special press release?

[angels3.livejournal.com]

I was a little shocked that the boys didn't mention the possiblity but then it wasn't really snooty people being taken down a peg so it wouldn't have fit I guess and the boys are smarter than me.

I don't think Sam would have wished it, he may have hoped for it maybe even begged for it a little but not have wished for it. I think Dean remembered from the Liltih part in the Yellow Fever and has been battling it ever since. Even before then I think he's been getting the PTS flashes.

I loved the Sam being the adult with the kid in the shower that just cracked me up for some reason.

Note to self.... don't laugh with stints in they hurt. OWWWWIEEE

[i-o-r-h-a-e-l.livejournal.com]

I don't think Sam wished Dean to remember. That would be tormenting Dean. :( But I really couldn't catch what Sam was saying either. :(

Btw, what I have in mind is that Sam really doesn't have anything to wish for since he has it already: Dean, alive and by his side. :)

[layne67.livejournal.com]

I need to watch it again. Some people are talking about couples therapy and I didn't get that one. Ha, as if I need an excuse to watch it again and again. Did you get that part?

And me thinking Sam making a wish is something that flashed across my mind the minute Dean said he remembered, I wasn't really thinking hard and deep or analysing about it. Hee, seems that I'm the only one with that kind of thought!

Sam really doesn't have anything to wish for since he has it already: Dean, alive and by his side

AWWWWWWWWW ... yes yes yes ♥

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Yes, I guess Lilith in YF had made Dean remember. Extreme conditions jogging back his memories, and he really thought that he was going back to hell then.

And I really, really LOVE it when Sam said the white-picket fence family thing is no longer what he wished for. Though it was a bit chilling when he said that he was no longer that man. Kind of expecting his eyes to turn yellow there :-0

You shouldn't be watching the funnies with the stitches there!! :)

[angels3.livejournal.com]

I know but did you really think a thing like minor surgery would keep me away from our boys?

My husband thought it was all kinds of amusing watching me try to not laugh the bastard.

I loved Sam's wish personally, I think it scared the shit out of Dean. I think the theory of Dean having seen Sam evil in hell may have some merit to it but I don't think it's all he saw, not by a long shot.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Oh no, there's a theory going on that Dean had seen evil!Sam in hell? :((

[angels3.livejournal.com]

Yea, I can't remember whose journal it was said that they thought the reason Dean didn't want to tell Sam about his time in hell was because he had been tortured by Sam. You know Sam going evil and the like which I guess would play to Uriel's little speech but.....

I'm more inclined to believe that Dean doesn't want to tell Sam because why would you tell someone you love something like that. I mean really! You wouldn't ever want them to have that knowledge. On top of that the boy already feels guilty for you dying and not getting you out so what, you're going to tell him how bad hell was. I don't think so.

Also I think Dean may have learned some things down there that may have him confused as well as worried that he's not ready to share on top of that he's done a lot of sharing and Sam's done a shit load of lying or avoiding so he may feel like it's time for Sam to do some sharing before he does.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

Oh no, I refuse to believe that! Mostly because Dean would have readily agreed with Castiel that Sam should be stopped, though stop doesn't necessarily mean kill, in Dean's books at least.

[angels3.livejournal.com]

Yea, I can't go with that theory either although I can see the demon's using Sam's face in order to torture Dean. You know using his fears against him. It's not really Sam but since Dean's terrified he can't keep Sam safe then the demon's used it as one more means to torment him while he was there.

[i-o-r-h-a-e-l.livejournal.com]

Couples therapy? No. My listening is really challenged by this episode.

[prism2me.livejournal.com]

I think Sam already knew that Dean remembered his time in hell based on what the angel said. Despite 'looking him in the eye', Sam knew Dean wasn't telling the truth about not remembering.

All in all, I think it's a moot point. The spell was broken, so Sam's wishes would have been null at thtat point.

Also, I really don't believe Sam would wish something on Dean that would be against his will. That's where it starts to get ugly.

[layne67.livejournal.com]

I no longer think that Sam made that wish, but just for argument sake, it's stil theoritically possible for Sam to do so. He did it after he got the coin from Wes, the coin is still magical, isn't it? What's to stop him from tossing it into another well, or maybe the same one even. The wishes made prior to Wes taking out the coin came undone, yes, but to my thinking Sam's wish was made *after* that.

But like I said, I no longer think that Sam made that wish!

[leelust.livejournal.com]

I see your point and it would be interesting but they removed the coiun so it won't work *sigh*

You mean when Lilith was scaring him to death at the end there? Yeah, I supposed he *was* forced to remember more things then he would like to
Yes, considering that Lilith was a figment of his imagination he admitted there that he remember being in hell with her - it was like a hole in the wall - the wall of memory block started to crash and now he remembers more and more.