layne67

I was wondering that myself. Seems to be the case, maybe since it's demon blood he's sucking.

I get what you mean about not being so invested but I think that's why this show and it's actors are so awesome. They've made us emotionally invested, they did that by showing up and doing their job 200%.

I'm sad they never got to meet the real Adam and Adam never knew he had brothers. :(

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Oh but I meant it in a good way though, I love getting myself all messed up after a show *g*

As for Adam, well, what he never knew would not hurt him, literally in his case. It's the boys, especially Dean, that made my heart break into millions of pieces. And in a way, they did get to meet Adam, because I think that creature had all of Adam's thoughts and everything, right?

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I know that I was just saying that's why I think we become so invested in it.

Sounded like it but I think the MotW kind of warped things to fit his needs maybe. Adam may not have been so trusting, maybe more boisterous. You know the little things that make each person an individual that even a Shapeshifter couldn't mimic.

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What was that thing exactly? I didn't quite get the word - I heard ... gool?

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It was a ghoul. *shudders*

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Thanks, hon!

Hee, you know, when Dean had that gun under the table at that diner, pointing it towards Adam, I was hoping that Sam would put his hand on top of Dean's, to hold him back.

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Would have made me happy, happy!

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Now I really, really want to read an AU where the boy was not a ghoul, Adam's POV, him finding out that Sam and Dean are together, like that.

:D

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Yes someone really needs to write it.

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Dean finding out that John took Adam to a baseball game.

Jensen's facial expressions were very subtle here, but the look in his eyes still hit me like a ton of bricks; and I'm totally with you - I hated John for that too. Things like this are why my DIL calls him "Asshole Dad". LOL

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Oh yes, Jensen was amazing there. But then, he always was, and is, amazing!

I don't hate John the person per se, no, I think he did the best he could. And you know, when we think of Max's father and how Max turned out, I think John did quite a good job, raising the boys, considering everything. He could have left the boys with relatives but he didn't. He brought them with him and that couldn't have been easy for him, a four-yr-old and a baby.

But oh Ninja, my poor, poor Dean ... I have no words for the pain he must have felt. I wonder whether he'd feel it like a betrayal?

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shadowc44.livejournal.com

It did seem like a betrayal to me. Did John have any idea how much something like that would have meant to Dean? If he didn't know that about the son he spent the most time with, that's even sadder.

I agree John could have been a lot worse, but he could also have been a hell of a lot better father. But he probably never really thought he'd be a single father, so wasn't even prepared in that regard. A lot of single fathers manage to figure things out, but he had that hunting/revenge thing going, and I think that really warped his viewpoint on raising kids.

But would it really have made Dean a lousy hunter if John had taken him to a baseball game? Would it have ruined Sam if John had taken him to a science museum or something? I don't think John was the worst TV father ever (Locke's dad on Lost gets that "honor", I think), but he's in the top five.

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I think John found out about Adam much, much later, I think when Adam was 14? John was much older than, more matured than the young, single parent who suddenly found himself raising two young kids single-handedly, and the grief of losing his wife still so very fresh.

Yes, I could forgive him, the situation was bizarre to say the least. Still doesn't make the pain any less though.

Shari, it HURTS!!!!!!!!!

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evening-spirit.livejournal.com

I think John found out about Adam in the year when Sam left for Stanford. Those dates in the episode were rather confusing, but if Adam was born in 1990, he'd be twelve when Sam was 19, so it would fit. And Sam's leaving might impact John's attitude toward the "new son". A second chance so to speak.

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I'm kind of glad now that I've been accidentally spoilt for this episode beforehand. I don't know how it would have been for me to discover out of the blue that John had another son whom he took to baseball games and whose birthday he went to.

Yes, I can see how Sam leaving would influence on how he saw Adam. Still doesn't make the hurt go away though.

*Goes off to sit in a corner and cries my heart out. Again*

Edited Date: 2009-04-25 02:39 pm (UTC)

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shadowc44.livejournal.com

I think Adam was 12 when John found out, but ou have a good point. I agree, it HURTS to see our boys hurting! And hurting each other, too. That's the worst of all. To have them be so close for a good part of their lives, and now they're slowly drifting apart, suspicious of each other, losing faith in each other, when they really have no one else. Okay, Dean has Castiel and Sam has Ruby, but getting moral support from them isn't the same thing at all.

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Oh, don't get me wrong, I have always been a John supporter. I don't think he was Dad of the Year or anything, but he did his best considering the circumstances and he truly loved his boys. Just that now we know he had this other life and seeing how happy and relatively normal it was in the pictures and listening to Adam; it pretty much makes him a hypocrite because he always told Dean & Sam that hunters can't have those kinds of connections.

But oh Ninja, my poor, poor Dean ... I have no words for the pain he must have felt. I wonder whether he'd feel it like a betrayal?

I'm sure he must have. After all those years playing the good son, doing everything John asked, working so hard to win his father's approval and love; then to find out he had given it away so easily to this other kid? Unh, it must have felt like a dagger to the heart. Oh, Deeeaaannn...when will they let you be happy?!?!?! *sobs*

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Just that now we know he had this other life and seeing how happy and relatively normal it was in the pictures and listening to Adam; it pretty much makes him a hypocrite because he always told Dean & Sam that hunters can't have those kinds of connections.

I'm telling myself over and over again ( to make myself feel better if nothing else ) that John was with his other family a few times only. And Adam didn't know that John had died, he never called John, so they couldn't be that close, could they? And the ghoul could have been twisting/exaggerating things a little, he must have seen how hurt Dean was when he saw that pic of John at the baseball game. I'm thinking that's the only time he went to a game with Adam.

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And Adam didn't know that John had died, he never called John, so they couldn't be that close, could they?

That's true, he couldn't have known or the ghoul would have. Feeling a little better now. See? This is why I need other people to help talk me through it, I forget these things. :)

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I wish I can watch it together with my LJ spn-flisters. We'd bring the house down with our collective moans and groans and whimpers and squees and weepings!

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Me too! Me too!

But at least you can watch it with your husband and he gets it. Unlike mine who keeps asking, "So, which one's Sean and which one's Dean?" :)

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He knows his Sam and Dean but he's still confusing Jensen witt Jared!

Sean? LOL

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i-o-r-h-a-e-l.livejournal.com

*hugs you tight*

I almost can't stand his pain this time. Oh my heart.

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To me the pain is so much worse than any physical pain the demons could ever inflict on him. So much worse.

He worships his father.

*cries*

I'm not saying John did wrong though, like Sam said, John wasn't a monk, but to hear about a brother, who went to games with his father, out of the blue, and when he was so unsure about Sam ...

Oh Shinta *hugs you back*

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vshendria.livejournal.com

Oh, yes, yes, yes. Dean. Dean. My Dean.
He is almost saintly in this episode. How it must have hurt him to know that John gave Adam everything he ever wanted...and then, AND THEN??? What does he do? There is a moment when he sees the picture of John hugging Adam's mother and I think he goes beyond the hurt and betrayal and he has compassion for John. He knows all of John's flaws and that John was not the man that he idolized all those years. He has to take John down from his pedestal and yet still he acts out of the ethical system he devised as a child as compensation for whatever was missing in this life: Protect family. Preserve family.

His actions were astonishing to me. There is no end to his goodness.

In terms of his emotional growth, I think this is positive. He no longer sees himself as "like" his father. This means he is looking for a new identity. This is good.

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vshendria.livejournal.com

Ooops. Didn't mean to italicize all that.

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Those are important points *nods*

:D

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